MUSIC INTERVIEW: AMANDA PALMER

The Artist, The Music, The Message, And The Crowdfunding Masterclass

If the massively successful Kickstarter campaign around her new album was the first time you heard of Boston’s Amanda Palmer, then you have missed rather a lot. In brief, to catch you up, over the past thirteen years, Ms. Palmer rose to fame as one half of punk rock cabaret duo The Dresden Dolls, conceived musical theater pieces, created a supergroup with Ben Folds, OK Go’s Damian Kulash and author Neil Gaiman, married Mr. Gaiman, released a pair of well-received solo albums, toured extensively, while steadily and attentively building a loyal online following of hundreds of thousands on Twitter and Facebook (though not necessarily in that order).

 

All of the hard work came together in a blaze of glory this Summer as 25,000 excited Kickstarter backers contributed $1.2 million to pre-purchase Amanda’s new Theatre Is Evil record, while Ms. Palmer herself revealed more and more of an all-inclusive artistic master plan via a succession of online updates and a tour of Art Openings, Backer Parties and Rock Shows stretching from Boston to Berlin to The Bay Area and beyond. To find out more, Buzzine’s Stefan Goldby sat down with Amanda Palmer at L.A.’s Pop tART Gallery before one of those triumphant tour events to learn more about the artist, her art, her message and the innovative marketing plan she and her team carefully put in place to help it all spread…

 

Stefan Goldby: Before Kickstarter, before the tour, before all the things that everybody now asks you about: In a land far, far away, you were in the studio, in Australia, perhaps with even more artistic control than ever before... Not that you haven’t always had a high degree of control in the studio, even when you were signed to a major label…

 

AP: Well, that is it… I wouldn’t say that is a misunderstanding… only because it is not something I talk about a lot: But the one area that I have to say the label was not particularly meddlesome was in the studio. But, I only made one record while technically on a major label, if you do the math…

 

The first Dresden Dolls record was made totally independently. They [Roadrunner Records] bought it for a big chunk of money, but we made it on our own dime and on our own time. The middle Dresden Dolls record, Yes, Virginia, was made while we were on the label and it was going to be, like, our 'big major effort'...

 

And then Who Killed Amanda Palmer, in a story that a lot of people never followed, the label wouldn’t commit to wanting to put it out until they heard it. And then they had a kind of right of first refusal to put it out, and if they took it, they took it - they had to right to it. If not, I could go shop around and put it out myself.

 

So I had to pay for it. I had to make the record on my own. But that did not seem like a bad thing at all. I took a year to make it. I spent a bunch of money. I figured, well, if I am spending a bunch of money and the record is just becoming more, and more, and more expensive, that will put the label in the position of either; having to pay a ton of money for it and thereby maybe being turned off, which is great, or, having to spend a ton of money on it, and thereby clearly doing a great job of promoting it as they had plunked down two hundred grand for it, which wound up being a false assumption! They plunked down the two hundred grand for it, and then they shelved it.

 

SG: Are you perhaps too clever for your own good, sometimes?

 

AP: Right, but within that middle process, the making the Yes Virginia record, they approved the producers and then off I trottled with Brian [Viglione] to a studio and we made the record we wanted to make. There was never a moment where the label called and they were like, “We need more cowbell!” or, “More dance tracks!” Like, that didn’t happen: I think they just sat in their offices worrying that we were going to deliver them something non-commercial! [Smiles]

 

SG: But now, for your new record Theatre Is Evil, there was three and a half years of preparation and a lot of forethought. Between the pulling together of the people who became the Grand Theft Orchestra to play with you, the picking of John Congleton as producer, and the eventual traveling halfway around the world to record, that was a lot of planning. And then you are in the process of making the record, and making it the record you wanted. After all that time, how did you know when it was done and ready to meet the world?

 

AP: I knew that the record was done... when I was happy with it. And I had a few things to compare it to - I have made six or seven records now in different weird formations. With Who Killed Amanda Palmer, it was a really convoluted process: I knew I had the songs, I pretty much knew what songs I wanted on the record. But I was not quite sure what I was going to do. Then Ben wanted to produce it. I was like, well, “Ben Folds will bring this element. I trust him...”

 

He came on board for part of the record and then left for other parts. And it was really just – that one was just a question of, “I will know I am happy with this song when I listen to it and it sounds done. If it does not sound done, I will re-approach it or I will remix it”. Which I did, I remixed a couple of those songs several times. Much like a painter, it is like when you stand back and your brain goes, "Alright, it is complete!" Only you know; but it is done. Unless you are one of those really frustrated painters who is like, “It is never finished!” [Laughs]

 

But this album, it really was sort of one of those things where it was meticulously planned, and then the execution was very fast. But the execution had involved years of strategic planning. That includes the release, like lots and lots of thinking about how I wanted to put a band together, lots of thinking about who would produce it, lots of thinking about where we would make it and what equipment we would use. Then when all of those factors came together, bam, we were there in Australia ready to record the songs, in the perfect spot.

 

Then literally, we came out of the studio and launched the Kickstarter and delivered it and said, “Here we go: It’s going out.” I mean, there was a bit of pressure there. Like, if I had come out the other side of the studio in Australia thinking, “Yeah, this is not quite done...” I would’ve been f***ed! Like, well and truly f***ed, because there was a whole release system and plan with timing. And Kickstarter. And dates, and touring, it was already fully locked and in motion. And if I had wanted to pull the plug on that, I could’ve, but it would have really, really screwed things up…

 

I put a mountain of faith in the band and in the producer that, in the course of those sixteen days, we were going to create a masterpiece. And if we didn’t… …we didn’t have that option! We had to create a masterpiece…

 

SG: Is there a moment in the studio that can sum up the actual experience of making the record?

 

AP: [Laughs] Well, I mean, we spent sixteen days in the studio just tracking non-stop, we did not take a day off. I had to duck out for one day because I got a flu… and that was really rough. Not just like being sick, but knowing that the process was just going to have to continue without me. And they were doing overdubs and stuff… But really it was – it was kind of a blur.

 

I mean, honestly, if you asked me right now, “What did you do on day one?” I don’t even remember what song we tracked first. I just know we had a list of twenty-one songs and we hit the ground running, and set up the instruments, and started with basics. Then one by one we just sort of sculpted away at these songs until at the eleventh hour, we were still kind of trying to get everything in.

 

I put off “The Bed Song” and “Trout Heart Replica”, which were the solo piano songs until the very last day of tracking. Because I kept convincing John and trying to convince myself that I was going to practice… which I never did! [Laughs] At a certain point I was like, “Well, I never got a chance to practice and we finish tracking tomorrow, so I guess I am just going to have to see how much I suck”. It was like, “Get in the studio and play that s***!”. It might be bad. I was like, yeah, but…

 

SG: Suddenly, your whole creative process seems to be about you thriving under a lot of pressure: The more pressure you can put on yourself, the better…

 

AP: Yeah, there is a certain kind way in which I do thrive under pressure. I mean, just like the 16-year-old in me who would like put off that English essay for four weeks. And then literally, like looking back and knowing the way I work now, and having read a lot about it, somewhere in there s*** was cranking and then I really, like, masochistically enjoyed the process of getting home from school that day and going through my little rituals and then at eight or nine at night, downing a big mug of coffee. Saying, “I am not sleeping tonight. I am going to write this essay. I have until 8:22 when I leave for school in the morning. I am going to do it.” And then sitting down… that actually is similar to my songwriting process.

 

I only like writing songs in one sitting and it is not even a matter of like; I only do it well in one sitting. The songs that happen over multiple sittings, that I kind of f*** around with, and change, and edit - they are never remotely as good as the songs where I kind of get a concept, know how I am going to tie things together, and then sit my ass in a chair and write the whole thing in one sitting.

 

So there is something about my brain, that it can focus on one thing very well. But it’s not very good at multitasking. I have been learning this about myself lately, too because I have been losing my memory. I have gotten really, really bad at focusing. I think also there is just a lot going on, but I have found myself incapable of doing something as simple as packing a suitcase and having a conversation. Like just – my brain and my body freeze if it is forced to do two tasks. I, I just – I have been adjusting…

 

SG: Was there a conscious attempt to make the music on this record even more provocative than it has been in the past?

 

AP: Wait, the music is provocative?

 

SG: You do not think it is?

 

AP: No.

 

SG: As a listener, I do…

 

AP: Provocative, in what way? Provocative in like, a literal way? Like it provokes images…?

 

SG: Provocative in that it fosters a response: It is not background music.

 

AP: No, it is not background music…

 

SG: Back with Brian in The Dresden Dolls or now in your solo career, you have never been a shrinking violet artistically, have you? [Smiles]

 

AP: [Laughs]

 

SG: But this time around, within that, there is a pop sheen that does seem a little more pronounced than it was before: Was that a deliberate artistic move on your part?

 

AP: Kind of, but not deliberate as in calculated. Because I have never made a record, ever, where I sat down and said, “OK, I am going to make a record like this.” I just write songs, all the time, as they come to me. I go through periods where I am writing more, and periods where I am not writing at all. But I just write as they come. And then, when it is time to make a record because I have not made one in a while, or that is the next step, I just… look at the pile. I say, “OK, well this is what I have got right now.”

 

The songs that I was writing post-Who Killed Amanda Palmer were… poppy; I do not know why. “Want It Back” and…  “Massachusetts Avenue” I had actually written a little while before, but it had been more of a ballad… but, you know, “Want It Back”, and “Do It With A Rock Star”, and “Melody Dean”, like the ones that I think of as like real ‘Pop Ragers’ - they were coming out of me…

 

I think what’s funny is I have not thought a lot about it until now, when I am talking to journalists and stuff, and having to go back and analyze myself. But I think a lot of it just has to do with the fact that I finally feel like I am allowed to do that. I have always been that kind of a poppy songwriter. But I have always carried some degree of shame about writing four chord songs that do not have strange barbs and twists, and odd chords in them.

 

When I was a teenager, I actually remember really deliberately f***ing up my songs. Like writing a four chord pop song and then sitting there… I can see myself at fifteen, sitting there at the piano and writing a four chord song. Then like sitting back and saying, “OK, how do I make this weird, because it sounds like a U2 song; like, it’s so boring: I need to change one of these chords or put in a weird section. Or see, like, what happens if I do…”

 

That was around the time I was studying jazz and theory, so I got what a tritone was. I got what a seventh was. I got what worked, and what did not work, and I kind of knew what to test out. I was kind of creating this pallette for myself. I got over that gradually, as I got into my twenties. I kind of allowed myself more and more freedom and gave myself more and more permission to just write the songs as they came. But I think there was also a part of myself in my twenties that really wanted to prove like I was a good, strong, weird, intellectual songwriter. And writing pretty simple pop songs was not a part of that. I think I shied away from it.

 

There was always a little bit, like there was “The Jeep Song” on the first Dresden Dolls record and on Who Killed Amanda Palmer there was “Oasis”, which is about as simple a pop song as you can get - even though the lyrics are totally twisted. And I think with this record, I think my inner songwriter backed the subconscious one. It was like, “You have done many things. Like, just do what you want: Write some pop songs. Like just… You are fine!”

 

So hopefully… my filter is now pretty much gonzo and I will be able even to allow myself to just write whatever I want, when it, and as it comes to me. Who knows what that will be? It might be little vocal-free Bach pieces, or… who knows?

 

But I like the idea that as a tinkerer I can allow myself to tink. I mean, you look at any songwriter and you figure, “Well, all the songwriters get ideas, but, Tom Waits probably wants to sound like Tom Waits.” Like, he knows who he is. He knows that, but then songwriters can surprise you and say like, “I can also do this thing.” Like, “Come over here with me.”

 

I think that the most exciting thing in a career, is when you are allowed to do that yourself. When you allow yourself that and your fans will allow you to do that. Not go like, “What the f*** is that about? We thought you were this. We do not like that.” The thing I really love about my fan base is they will… they will pretty much follow me. I have a feeling. I mean, I could well and truly f*** them and put out a terrible spangly Katy Perry pop record. But I think they also trust me that I won’t do anything bad. Because I trust myself and I have standards for myself. Sorry Katy Perry, your music is great: You know what I mean… [Laughs]

 

SG: Beyond the songwriting, and the artistic creativity, there can also be a an art to business, and what has happened with your Kickstarter campaign is a shining example of that: When it launched, you set a very public hundred thousand dollar goal and laid out a pretty clear manifesto of what that was going to get, both for you and for your backers. But, behind that, privately, what did you actually think would happen?

 

AP: That is an easy question to answer. I didn’t know exactly, because you just don’t know. But the hundred thousand dollar goal that I set on Kickstarter was random. It was a number that we put up there, but it wasn’t the actual goal. If that had been the actual goal in that we would have been very happy to reach a hundred thousand dollars… we would have been really screwed if we had only had a hundred thousand dollars - we put that as the absolute conservative nice round number...

 

When I sat down with my business manager and my team and we were doing our financial plotting for the year, my best guess when I kind of did a like, “Well, if we sell this many vinyl and this many CDs, and art books… they kind of cost this much to manufacture and ship… hmmm…” was that I came up with about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars and that was so little conservative… that was like, “if that is where we hit, we will be on track. We will not have to freak out and go borrow money…”

 

So we did well over that, clearly… but I was also hoping we would hit a million dollars. To me, it was do-able if the fans really got on board - because as you can see, it is not that many people. It is a small number of people being really engaged and a handful of people giving me a dollar but also spreading the word…

 

I knew – I mean, I remember saying to some friends, “If I can be the first artist who can crowdfund a million dollars that will be great." But mostly, outside of what it will mean internally for the team and how many CDs we have to ship, it will mean huge things for the message we can send to the industry and the press about what is happening over here, which is, “This stuff works. Like, it is very clearly working. It is working for me and it is working for other artists…”

 

I knew when you say, “A million dollars” to someone, they go, “A million dollars?!! George, we need to write about this girl - Who is she? Some kind of weird internet artist... One million dollars!” That is the way the world works…

 

SG: So, here we are, $1.2 million later, sitting in a room surrounded by artwork commissioned for the album on the L.A. stop of what is – with apologies to the Jacksons - a bona fide ‘Victory Tour’... 

 

AP: [Laughs]

 

SG: You had a plan for four hundred and fifty grand: You hoped for a million. How much of what is around us right now was made possible by completely exceeding your goals?

 

AP: Well… none of it! All of this artwork was commissioned and more or less paid for before the Kickstarter was even launched. So, I was gambling on myself when I paid all of these artists. I borrowed the money: Told them all I would pay them, then launched the Kickstarter and prayed…

 

SG: Is that more of the applying pressure to yourself?

 

AP: Yeah, but it also…is not as random as that. I have done it: I have put out records before through my website and more or less crowdfunded, using a platform that was not Kickstarter. I knew kind of what I was good for. I knew that there was not a scenario in which no one would buy the record. I knew what my hardcore fans had done before and what they were capable of doing.

 

So I had a vague idea of what was possible and I also am lucky enough to be able to pull on resources which I did before this Kickstarter came out - going to a variety of fans, and friends, and families, saying like, “I’ve got to borrow some money. I'm going to pay you back when this Kickstarter launches: You know I am good for it.” They were like, “We know you are good for it: Here is ten grand. Pay these artists; come back”.

 

But that is also a trust that has been built up over a thirteen year career where I have borrowed money countless times from countless people, to manufacture books and launch a project that is not going to make money for a few months, and so on and so forth. So that’s the part of the business and part of being a musician, that as an artist that gets boring. But we are back. We are always back there doing a lot of that all of our shystie shufflings….

 

SG: Let’s end today in the upside of those shystie shufflings: You mentioned getting to a million dollars raised in order to get a message out there. Where some artists perceive the way the entertainment world has changed to be daunting and even somewhat frightening, you saw opportunity. You saw freedom. You saw things that could be: What is it that you saw and what is the message that you are spreading, beyond your music?

 

AP: I think the way the Internet is set up right now, and the way the industry is going, with my ability to directly connect with people, is great for me. Because as this kind of artist, I love having complete control, I love having direct access; I even love all the bulls*** that goes along with it. That does not mean that it is all fun and games, and I do not ever get exhausted and frustrated, and have to deal, like everyone else does...

 

But I would so much rather deal with the problems of directly connecting than the problems of being disconnected, which is how I felt when I was on a major label. And which is how I would feel if I were kind of a ‘pop star on a mountain’. Those are the kinds of problems you could not pay me a billion dollars to have.

 

I like this set of problems. But that is me, and not all artists are the same. I think that one thing that we are seeing right now is for very socially minded, connecting people like me, this is great. For those who would rather just be on a mountain or sit in a room and compose and slip the s*** under the door, this might not be the era for you, you might be f***ed…

 

But I will help you, PJ Harvey and Jeff Mangum - if you are out there, we are going to start a non-profit for you called “Save The Shy”. [Laughs] I don’t know, we will come up with something good… and we will all tweet on your behalf…

 

Amanda Palmer & The Grand Theft Orchestra’s album ‘Theatre Is Evil’ is released in the US on Monday September 10, 2012.

 

Amanda’s 24,883 Kickstarter backers recently began receiving their special versions of the album, along with personalized Books, Concert Tickets, Artwork, Turntables and more…

 

Click to see exclusive Buzzine photo galleries of Amanda Palmer’s recent Los Angeles ‘Rock Show’ at the The Roxy and ‘Art Gallery Show’ at the Pop tART Gallery.